Show the Colours
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Latest topics
» WAR OF CHANGE
Of rifles and French EmptySun Jun 15, 2014 12:18 pm by Guest

» ONE-THOUSAND ARMS (A Naruto Roleplay)
Of rifles and French EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 pm by Guest

» 14th June: Building bridges of humanity
Of rifles and French EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 8:09 pm by Estefania Lopes d.Almeida

» 7th October: Charming play
Of rifles and French EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 5:36 pm by Estefania Lopes d.Almeida

» Recondite Reverie
Of rifles and French EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 12:22 pm by Guest

» Into the Wild
Of rifles and French EmptySat Jun 07, 2014 1:23 am by Guest

» Dragons' Cove
Of rifles and French EmptyFri Jun 06, 2014 10:21 pm by Guest

» Break the Darkness - Black Jewels Trilogy RPG (SMF, BJT RPG)
Of rifles and French EmptyThu Jun 05, 2014 12:52 pm by Guest

» Board closing date
Of rifles and French EmptyThu Jun 05, 2014 8:38 am by Sharpiefan

» All Together Now
Of rifles and French EmptyWed Jun 04, 2014 8:35 am by Guest

Calendar
If there is a thread not linked from the Calendar, please let me know so I can add it. ~ Sharpie

May 1809
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31

June 1809
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 262728 29 30


July 1809
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1
2 345 6 7 8
91011 12 13 14 15
161718 19 20 21 22
232425 262728 29
3031
Staff

Admin: Sharpie
Mod: Allhands

Affiliates
Affiliate with us!
(See here for details)

Show the Colours



RPG-Directory ~

The London Life ~ Aeterna Roma

~ Steamhawke

Rise of an Empire ~

Edolon:A Tournament of Shadows ~

~ Rise of the Immortals


~ ~ ~
BTM affiliates ~ the HAUTE Ton
Credits
Total Drama Website's Jade Rook Award ~ 3 Years & Counting
Header banner, ad banner, Chattery banner and StC button were made by Keiju

Forum icons were made by Sharpiefan, Keiju and sans nom, using base pics from Sharpe, Hornblower and Master & Commander and photos provided by Kinsella

Canon characters belong to their respective authors; original characters belong to their players.

We make no profit from this site.

Protected by Copyscape Unique Content Checker

Of rifles and French

2 posters

Go down

Of rifles and French Empty Of rifles and French

Post  Zachary Pye Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:34 pm

What was the opinion on Rifles:

Here below shall be several quotes from several sources, which might be commented on:

From the Gentleman's magazine 1837 on Rifles:

Yankee and English:

Tho small sized English rifle barrel is the best. The Yankee barrels are the worst. I have seen barrels that were made in our western country; were welded and bored with a precision that finest workman from the old country could not excel.


French:

French rifles are the worst in tho world. The moiisieurs seem as if they studied to impede the bullet in its transit and increase tho power of friction. Many of their barrels are grooved straight up and without the slightest spiral twist. Others are turned barely a quarter of an inch instead of an entire round. Some have a small piece of the barrel rifled near the muzzle - others in the opposite extreme, have the whole length of tho lube grooved with an infinity of fine grooves like the teeth of a saw. Napoleon Bonaparte had a splendid looking rifle inlaid with precious stones and metals but grooved with saw like zig zags more befitting a trepanning instrument than a ball gun It was also case hardened inside and out. Now I care not how straight a tube may be bored or how beautifully it may be rifled; the process of case hardening must give it a curve, more or less.

If this is so, I am not surprised that Napoleon thought little of the rifle. Should it have been considered just a slow loader, with few benefits, it would not fit the type of strategies 'enmasse' that he had.

The art of warware in the age of Napoleon :

The French have experimented with them (rifles) but in 1807, Napoleon ordered all rifled weapons withdrawn.


The problem here seems to begin even in training. Large bodied armies would need a lot of gunpowder for people to be trained more than just how to hold, load and fire a weapon. There is said to have been a predescribed amount of gun powder per soldier, and only riflemen would receive more. Since it was still considered better to fire faster even if with more men and less accuracy rather than individually, it could be understandable how rifle was not as praised.

Additional problems to discourage: Longer time of training, higher chance and more rapid fouling, longer loading therefor a reduced rate of fire, high cost of weapon.

Beginning in 1807, Napoleon finally reduced the emphasis on skirmishers and relied more and more on massive attacks, carried out by large columns, sometimes divisional formations.

Hunting rifles have been mentioned on several occasions as in use in France. When I come back - since I have to go taxi - I will write more on that part.

In the British army there were two rifle-armed regiments, the 60th and the 95th, though the famous Light Brigade, later the Light Division, in the peninsula for the most part carried modified issue muskets.

Unrelated but interesting, any thoughts welcome on it!: Bayonets were not as frequently used as supposed, although Napoleon preferred that men were killed by cold steel rather than fire. They were in the manual as frequently prescribed as bad medicine Wink, however it was more the threat of a bayonet, than its actual use that could decide the matter. More useful as defence against cavalry.

Internet site:

However, the rifles took longer to load - a fact that put Napoleon Bonaparte off using them.
(not hate, just think they were useless to his strategy? It is rather that the air gun was loathed because of how silent it was, and thus anybody owning one, would be considered an assassin, and killed as such.)

The few rifled muskets issued in French service were withdrawn in 1807, not surprising in an army based on quick training and mass formations.


Later time:

Napoleon against great odds: the emperor and the defenders of France, 1814:
A Frenchman could pleasantly invite some Cossacks into his home and give them their fill of alcohol as they sat around the table. When the ''guests'' were sufficiently stupefied, pistols and hunting rifles suddenly appeared in the hands of the host and his servants and the Cossacks were shot down before they could react.
(at another time, the Cossacks invited themselves into a French widow's home. Safe to say, she waited till they were asleep and then set fire to the place they were in.

Of rifles and French Zoom3.ms?img=aa1970.179.1.R.jpg&wrapperid=4&outputx=575&outputy=364

And here, about the above shown rifle: Flintlock rifle

Long rage shooting - French rifles, carbines, etc.:

The French had almost abandoned the rifle during the Napoleonic Wars. Their equivalent to the Baker was the Carabine de Versailles which was basically just a typical German Jaeger rifle. Accounts of the use of these are sparse although Colonel Peter Hawker in his JOURNAL OF A REGIMENTAL OFFICER, published in 1810, claims that the wound he sustained at Talavera in 1809, and which finished his active service career when still a Captain, was caused by a rifle ball.

Napoleonic French model ANXII Versailles carbine.

41inch overall length with a 25 1/2 inch octagonal rifled barrel lightly flared at the muzzle. Marked "Mre IMPle A Vlles" with inspector stamp on lock. 1806 and EF marked on barrel. Very good 1806 dated wood cartouche. Ram rod is a later replacement. An exceptional Napoleonic carbine designed by Nicolas Noel Boutet and built in his renowned Versailles Manufacture!

Of rifles and French Versailles%20man%20autor%20antiquefirearms-01 and Of rifles and French Versailles%20man%20autor%20antiquefirearms-10


Versailes An XII Carbine, c.1812

The carbine is approx 104.1cm overall length, the barrel 64.7cm from tip to breach. The lockplate is marked Mre Imple de Versailles with partial Inspector’s stamp above N (Nicaise). The Versailles flintlock arm was the very handsome Swan Neck design. The 7 groove hexagonal rifled barrel.

The An XII Modele carbine was the highest quality issued to the Grande Armee with strictly limited distribution. As a general rule, two were allotted to the best marksmen in the Velites of the Guard, and to light companies of skirmishers of the line; Versailles records show that a total of 2212 were issued and a further 80 allotted to the Mamelucks.

And last, a rifle carbine of an officer:

Rifle of officer of cavalry Model 1793

Length of the weapon: 755 mm

Length of the barrel: 380 mm

Barrel: With eight sides, mouth slightly trombloned. Seven helical equidistant grooves. A small front sight is placed on the barrel.
Of rifles and French Versailles%20man%20imp%20cavalerie%201793-11

Of rifles and French Versailles%20man%20imp%20cavalerie%201793-05

Zachary Pye
Zachary Pye
Captain

Species : British Riflemen; 5/60th Rifles
Number of posts : 2694
Location : Waiting for dinner
Member since : 2009-02-14

https://showthecolours.forumakers.com/player-characters-f4/zachar

Back to top Go down

Of rifles and French Empty Re: Of rifles and French

Post  François Sevière Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:06 am

Interesting stuff, kins! Some of it I was aware but some of it new to me, thanks!

I can see why Napoleon did not care to make use of rifles in greater numbers, even if they would have been better groved as he wanted massed formations taking less training and expending less gun powder.
François Sevière
François Sevière
Midshipman

Species : Soldat; 86e Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
Number of posts : 312
Member since : 2011-03-10

https://showthecolours.forumakers.com/t1509-francois-joseph-marie

Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum