Naval servants?

So we've been discussing whether or not officers would have personal servants (and/or whether we should give our Terpsy fellows individual servants or just let the wardroom steward and his mate take care of them). And this doesn't provide an exact answer, but here it is anyway:

Nelson's Navy, p. 140-141

(Also, I get a bit confused between this and "The Library" section. I keep losing track of what's been posted where, between the two. And I'm not sure if this one belongs here because it's a discussion/query, or if it belongs there because it's a source for research. So feel free to move this thread to the most suitable place!)

I'm open to whatever gets decided!

(This is a general discussion area. Though you're perfectly able to link to suitable sources and stuff... and I'll link to those sources from my references page. Deal? )

Also - I saw the thread in question. I'm perfectly happy for Button to end up becoming an officer's servant, though he might end up hating me, the officer concerned and/or the whole idea.

(I didn't mean the references page, but the "Library" section. Eh, never mind. I'm confusing my SELF now.)

It's not that I want Deverel to have a servant, but I just wanted to know what's proper in a frigate. Should officers have servants? If it's uncommon, Deverel can just do without. And I didn't want Deverel to look like he was pompous and entitled and demanding by asking about a servant. I just had him asking about a servant because I was under the impression that everyone would have one, at least a guy to do their laundry and polish their boots and stand behind their chairs at dinner. It's not Deverel being demanding, but me being ignorant.

The real Mr. Deverel would know these things, but I don't, and I don't want to play him the wrong way. (Ugh, this is my problem with playing a canon character. If he were my own invention, I could have him be as stupid and pompous and demanding as I like. But real Deverel has been in the navy a long time and can put up with normal naval life just fine, including a lack of servants. I feel a responsibility not to portray him the wrong way. Clearly I'm thinking WAY too much about it. Argh.)

No, it was usual for officers to have servants - remember the dining scene in the wardroom in M&C, with the boys standing behind the officers' chairs? They weren't there just for the meal - they would have been the officers' servants and waiting at table was one of their duties.

I just made a poll!

That's kind of what I thought. Hmm. So for that marine who stood behind Howard's chair, would he be a marine "boy"? Or would he be a drummer? Or what? He wears a marine coat, so he's obviously connected to the marines somehow, and not just a landsman who is inept at other more nautical duties.

He was probably just an ordinary Marine Private - like Foley, Cartwright's steward - only with the extra duties of being Howard's servant. Things are always a bit different for the Marines, of course.

I was looking on the ranks and pay scale chart yesterday and saw that marines had "boys" and wondered what they were.

No idea - there's stuff I haven't figured out. Possibly younger Marines not doing the role of drummer, but not able to take their place in doing sentry duties and stuff.

Dunno.

Maybe like the volunteer 1st class boys (or whatever class, I forget what they were called) who were like pre-midshipmen? Learning stuff but not yet "real" guys? (I read that those guys were also servants, before 1794 .)

There were three classes of boy:

Boy 3rd class (like Fingers and Terry) - those boys under the age of 16 who will grow up to become trained, experienced sailors and petty officers (like Chase and Tide Evans)

Boys 2nd Class were those between 16 and 18 who are learning their trade, and will probably get rated straight to Able Seaman once they reach the age of 18.

Volunteers 1st Class (note the different word!!) Earlier, these would have been listed as Captain's Servants. Again, these are boys under the age of 17 (technically, Simon Fletcher is a Volunteer 1st Class, rather than a midshipman). Midshipmen were on a level with petty officers - they took charge of certain aspects of sailing - for example, you would have a midshipman in charge in the tops, directing the seamen via the Captains of the tops (who were able seamen that the captain had promoted to petty officer). Midshipmen - and Volunteers 1st Class - would be taught navigation, which was pretty much THE thing that separated officers from the ordinary seamen. They would also have to know various manoeuvres and sailing techniques, which they would be tested on during their examination to become lieutenants: "Imagine you are Captain of a 74-gun ship in a strong westerly gale, with Dover cliffs under your lee. What would you do?"

Couldn't you be a midshipman without being the volunteer first class if you had influential parents who arranged it for you (and knew the captain?). Which would allow Fletcher to be it, since his family is like ...in the power?

No; because a captain would write him down as Vol 1st Class - influence doesn't come into it, it's to do with age and experience and all that sort of thing.

Hm. But wouldn't some captains write their children down as in service, even when they were just born? What would those write them in as? (or was the middie connection thing an earlier thing (earlier age) and this the latter? Urk. x.x Too tired to think. I better shut up!

Yes, they did - as captains' servants.

Doing that was just a ploy to get them 'sea-time' according to the books.

And that extra sea-time on their record would allow them to jump in as midshipmen sooner, right?

I think it was to be able to jump in as to go take the exam sooner or something. Because you could only take the exam for lieutenant after a certain amount of time of sea service.

You also had to be at least twenty - or able to pass for twenty. (Supposedly.)